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Chris: in my view , a reference to the work of Friedrich Schiller would very much round off this section: "play" seen as state of being , as a separate ( and in Schiller's view maybe even ultimate) form of human existence!

translucy: only stumbled upon Schiller recently (as a result of reading Kirkpatrick) - I missed a trick here! :)

A collection of random observations:

Huizinga introduced the idea of play being a thing apart from productive action, but problems with this position are visible even in Homo Ludens where he explores play elements in the law and in warfare.

I would argue that play requires the player to enter into a ludic stance where the game is TREATED as an end unto itself, even if the player knows that there are material consequence external to the game.

I do think that uncertainty is central to play, primarily because so much of play involves the construction of anticipatory chains. We think forward though a system of constraints, and then enjoy how our expectations are confirmed or thwarted. A play space with no uncertainty allows perfect anticipation; our expectations sprint so far ahead of our actions that the actual movement through the play space feels like we're following a predetermined script. Once I announce "mate in three moves" and you confirm that my expectation is correct, the game is over. Actually making the moves is merely a formality.

I'm firmly in the camp that believes a preoccupation with challenge and winning has warped the study of games. In order for play to occur different states within the play space need to be assigned different values -- THIS state is more desirable than THAT state. However this differentiation of the play space does not need to be organized around "winning" or "losing". "I wonder what's over there?" is a perfectly valid differentiating criteria for structuring a play space.

Brian: thanks for your comments!

I'm not sure Huizinga is justly tarred with the brush of this separation between play and productive action - much of Homo Ludens is spent commenting on where the play element of culture used to be found (but can be no longer). His position, in this respect, was more subtle than Caillois' (as Malaby asserts), although it's important to recognise that Huizinga and Caillois pursued very different projects.

The issue with uncertainty for me comes down to how to understand theatrical plays etc., which for me still constitute a form of play (a game of make-believe). Uncertainty is harder to demonstrate here, and this suggests to me at least the possibility that some kinds of play do not require uncertainty as such. But this is a fuzzy point at the borders of the territory I'm exploring.

"I'm firmly in the camp that believes a preoccupation with challenge and winning has warped the study of games."

Amen brother, testify! :) Challenge and victory is very important to the understanding of play. But it is not, and never has been, the entirety of play. It is in recognising this, and drawing out some key patterns (that also happened to foreshadow the neurobiology of play) that Caillois' work is best celebrated.

All the best!

I suspect that Huizinga's play aesthetic drifted during the course of writing Homo Ludens. In the first chapter he writes: "“Summing up the formal characteristics of play we might call it a free activity standing quite consciously outside ‘ordinary’ life as being ‘not serious,’ but at the same time absorbing the player intensely and utterly. It is an activity connected with no material interest, and no profit can be gained by it.”

That seems to place him pretty firmly in the "play is non-productive" camp. However, his actual analysis of play in culture later in the book runs counter to this definition. My reading of Huizinga is that he worked out his definition of play without fully considering its implications for his larger thesis.

With theatrical play I think it's important to distinguish the experience of the audience from the experience of the performers. Both present opportunities for play, but radically different kinds.

The primary goal of a performer is to structure an experience for the audience. Professional performers don't usually pursue performance as an end unto itself, but rather as a means to this end. Older schools of acting in particular emphasized rigid discipline on stage. A performance was not to be approached like a game of make-believe, but as a highly-skilled rote recital. It's hard to see this kind of performance as a playful activity.

However the various "method" schools emphasize a more organic approach. The goal is not to work out every nuance of the performance in advance and flawlessly execute it, but rather to treat each performance as fresh exploration of the character. This often requires the actor to play the role as an end unto itself, rather than for the benefit of the audience. THis can result in the adoption of a lusory attitude by the performer.

Audience play is an entirely different kettle of fish. It falls into the category of what I call "interpretive play", where the goal is not to arrive at a particular destination, but rather to construct an interpretive framework that makes sense of what came before and allows anticipation of what will happen afterwards. The success or failure of an interpretive frame in containing a performance can often hinge on tiny nuances ("She narrowed her eyes ... is she actually lying?") which accounts for why we can enjoy watching the same show multiple times. Minor variations in the actors' performances, or even in just which details we notice, can create enough variation in the constraints of the narrative system to structure a fresh interpretive play space.

Brian: really nice commentary here.

Re: Huizinga, the exact same tensions appear in Caillois, who lays out a definition then proceeds to go "off piste" for the rest of the book. :)

And I like your take on theatre here, and agree distinguishing between audience and actor experience is highly relevant. I hadn't thought about interpretive play in these terms before, but it would bear fruit not just in theatre but also in repeat viewings or readings of other media.

All the best!

To add to your comments on uncertainty in "games of fiction":
To me stories in western culture revolve very much around application of the "what if"-rule: what if the world and the people or other beings were different?

What if the dead were not completely dead?
What if your neighbor were an alien?
What if the daughter of a 19th century landlord actually dared to choose the man she loves?
What if the mad prince was not mad but fooling everyone , plotting a scheme outside civilized bounds?

If the resulting what if scenario is well crafted it fulfills many of the aesthetic criteria you guys mentioned, first of all because it is meaningful and relevant in exactly an aesthetic rather than a pragmatic way.

Btw, I wonder if one should use the term "contingency" where you currently use "uncertainty"?

translucy: thanks for sharing this! It's an interesting slant on this topic.

As for 'contingency' vs 'uncertainty' - I'm following Malaby in using 'uncertainty', but either term would seem to be workable.

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